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	<title>Comments on: Effects of Ideas, Stories, and Theories</title>
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	<description>This is where I share my ideas &#38; questions.</description>
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		<title>By: Brian Frank</title>
		<link>http://brianfrank.ca/2010/01/effects-of-ideas-stories-and-theories/comment-page-1/#comment-6747</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 10:07:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brianfrank.ca/?p=4885#comment-6747</guid>
		<description>Ironically this is a perfect demonstration of Lyotard&#039;s theory...&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;For the most part I stick with your suggestion of efficacy referring to action and relevance to ideas, but I also tend to allow some seepage. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;m trying to exploit the connotations of relevance we use on the web (search engine relevance) to affect how we think of action (not just human action, but chemical, genetic, etc) -- on a really general level, it&#039;s about organization.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The question I&#039;m trying to address with that is the old one of &quot;is man inherently good or inherently evil?&quot; and all of its permutations. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;To me, &quot;beyond good &amp; evil,&quot; we&#039;re all just trying to optimize the network of connections we make with the world and others around us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ironically this is a perfect demonstration of Lyotard&#39;s theory&#8230;</p>
<p>For the most part I stick with your suggestion of efficacy referring to action and relevance to ideas, but I also tend to allow some seepage. </p>
<p>I&#39;m trying to exploit the connotations of relevance we use on the web (search engine relevance) to affect how we think of action (not just human action, but chemical, genetic, etc) &#8212; on a really general level, it&#39;s about organization.</p>
<p>The question I&#39;m trying to address with that is the old one of &#8220;is man inherently good or inherently evil?&#8221; and all of its permutations. </p>
<p>To me, &#8220;beyond good &#038; evil,&#8221; we&#39;re all just trying to optimize the network of connections we make with the world and others around us.</p>
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		<title>By: ndrwclrk</title>
		<link>http://brianfrank.ca/2010/01/effects-of-ideas-stories-and-theories/comment-page-1/#comment-6746</link>
		<dc:creator>ndrwclrk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 09:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brianfrank.ca/?p=4885#comment-6746</guid>
		<description>Good stuff.  Right now I forget who said that knowledge = information + attention (or information * attention - not sure which operator is the best).  What I think you&#039;re saying here is that efficacy = relevance + agency.   That&#039;s at least a distinction that I like to make, because I tend to use efficacy in a more restricted sense.   Relevance refers to the ideas, efficacy refers to the actions we take based on those ideas.  The mediating concept in between them is agency.  We must have some sort of real choice in the matter, or we can&#039;t take relevant ideas and put them in action. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;When you talk about becoming more aware of the theories and stories we use (mostly unconsciously) I think you&#039;re talking about exactly what Jean-Francois Lyotard was talking about in his notion of paralogy.   He puts paralogy forward as a word to describe the way that discourse proceeds in the postmodern world.    If we become aware of our own theories and stories, we&#039;re able explicitly to negotiate different ones with others who don&#039;t share ours.   He basically says that the definition of postmodernism is the recognition that we can no longer assume that we all share any single story or theory (a metanarrative, as he calls it).  Previously, we might have thought this, and might have used that metanarrative as a way to validate our other arguments (it was our discourse of legitimation, in his terms).  But now we don&#039;t have that.   Every time we want to discuss something, we have to work out explicitly the rules about how our discourse will be advanced.   It&#039;s not &quot;efficient&quot; but it&#039;s the only way forward from where we are now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good stuff.  Right now I forget who said that knowledge = information + attention (or information * attention &#8211; not sure which operator is the best).  What I think you&#39;re saying here is that efficacy = relevance + agency.   That&#39;s at least a distinction that I like to make, because I tend to use efficacy in a more restricted sense.   Relevance refers to the ideas, efficacy refers to the actions we take based on those ideas.  The mediating concept in between them is agency.  We must have some sort of real choice in the matter, or we can&#39;t take relevant ideas and put them in action. </p>
<p>When you talk about becoming more aware of the theories and stories we use (mostly unconsciously) I think you&#39;re talking about exactly what Jean-Francois Lyotard was talking about in his notion of paralogy.   He puts paralogy forward as a word to describe the way that discourse proceeds in the postmodern world.    If we become aware of our own theories and stories, we&#39;re able explicitly to negotiate different ones with others who don&#39;t share ours.   He basically says that the definition of postmodernism is the recognition that we can no longer assume that we all share any single story or theory (a metanarrative, as he calls it).  Previously, we might have thought this, and might have used that metanarrative as a way to validate our other arguments (it was our discourse of legitimation, in his terms).  But now we don&#39;t have that.   Every time we want to discuss something, we have to work out explicitly the rules about how our discourse will be advanced.   It&#39;s not &#8220;efficient&#8221; but it&#39;s the only way forward from where we are now.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Frank</title>
		<link>http://brianfrank.ca/2010/01/effects-of-ideas-stories-and-theories/comment-page-1/#comment-6613</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 05:07:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brianfrank.ca/?p=4885#comment-6613</guid>
		<description>Ironically this is a perfect demonstration of Lyotard&#039;s theory...&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;For the most part I stick with your suggestion of efficacy referring to action and relevance to ideas, but I also tend to allow some seepage. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;m trying to exploit the connotations of relevance we use on the web (search engine relevance) to affect how we think of action (not just human action, but chemical, genetic, etc) -- on a really general level, it&#039;s about organization.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The question I&#039;m trying to address with that is the old one of &quot;is man inherently good or inherently evil?&quot; and all of its permutations. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;To me, &quot;beyond good &amp; evil,&quot; we&#039;re all just trying to optimize the network of connections we make with the world and others around us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ironically this is a perfect demonstration of Lyotard&#39;s theory&#8230;</p>
<p>For the most part I stick with your suggestion of efficacy referring to action and relevance to ideas, but I also tend to allow some seepage. </p>
<p>I&#39;m trying to exploit the connotations of relevance we use on the web (search engine relevance) to affect how we think of action (not just human action, but chemical, genetic, etc) &#8212; on a really general level, it&#39;s about organization.</p>
<p>The question I&#39;m trying to address with that is the old one of &#8220;is man inherently good or inherently evil?&#8221; and all of its permutations. </p>
<p>To me, &#8220;beyond good &#038; evil,&#8221; we&#39;re all just trying to optimize the network of connections we make with the world and others around us.</p>
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		<title>By: ndrwclrk</title>
		<link>http://brianfrank.ca/2010/01/effects-of-ideas-stories-and-theories/comment-page-1/#comment-6608</link>
		<dc:creator>ndrwclrk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 04:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brianfrank.ca/?p=4885#comment-6608</guid>
		<description>Good stuff.  Right now I forget who said that knowledge = information + attention (or information * attention - not sure which operator is the best).  What I think you&#039;re saying here is that efficacy = relevance + agency.   That&#039;s at least a distinction that I like to make, because I tend to use efficacy in a more restricted sense.   Relevance refers to the ideas, efficacy refers to the actions we take based on those ideas.  The mediating concept in between them is agency.  We must have some sort of real choice in the matter, or we can&#039;t take relevant ideas and put them in action. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;When you talk about becoming more aware of the theories and stories we use (mostly unconsciously) I think you&#039;re talking about exactly what Jean-Francois Lyotard was talking about in his notion of paralogy.   He puts paralogy forward as a word to describe the way that discourse proceeds in the postmodern world.    If we become aware of our own theories and stories, we&#039;re able explicitly to negotiate different ones with others who don&#039;t share ours.   He basically says that the definition of postmodernism is the recognition that we can no longer assume that we all share any single story or theory (a metanarrative, as he calls it).  Previously, we might have thought this, and might have used that metanarrative as a way to validate our other arguments (it was our discourse of legitimation, in his terms).  But now we don&#039;t have that.   Every time we want to discuss something, we have to work out explicitly the rules about how our discourse will be advanced.   It&#039;s not &quot;efficient&quot; but it&#039;s the only way forward from where we are now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good stuff.  Right now I forget who said that knowledge = information + attention (or information * attention &#8211; not sure which operator is the best).  What I think you&#39;re saying here is that efficacy = relevance + agency.   That&#39;s at least a distinction that I like to make, because I tend to use efficacy in a more restricted sense.   Relevance refers to the ideas, efficacy refers to the actions we take based on those ideas.  The mediating concept in between them is agency.  We must have some sort of real choice in the matter, or we can&#39;t take relevant ideas and put them in action. </p>
<p>When you talk about becoming more aware of the theories and stories we use (mostly unconsciously) I think you&#39;re talking about exactly what Jean-Francois Lyotard was talking about in his notion of paralogy.   He puts paralogy forward as a word to describe the way that discourse proceeds in the postmodern world.    If we become aware of our own theories and stories, we&#39;re able explicitly to negotiate different ones with others who don&#39;t share ours.   He basically says that the definition of postmodernism is the recognition that we can no longer assume that we all share any single story or theory (a metanarrative, as he calls it).  Previously, we might have thought this, and might have used that metanarrative as a way to validate our other arguments (it was our discourse of legitimation, in his terms).  But now we don&#39;t have that.   Every time we want to discuss something, we have to work out explicitly the rules about how our discourse will be advanced.   It&#39;s not &#8220;efficient&#8221; but it&#39;s the only way forward from where we are now.</p>
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		<title>By: ronny</title>
		<link>http://brianfrank.ca/2010/01/effects-of-ideas-stories-and-theories/comment-page-1/#comment-6367</link>
		<dc:creator>ronny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 13:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brianfrank.ca/?p=4885#comment-6367</guid>
		<description>To me, your article reinforced the notion that when we find ourselves &quot;flowing&quot; in the wrong direction, it&#039;s vital to attempt to get to the root of the backward/negative thinking. Haidt is exactly right in that we decide our course unconsciously then rationalize afterward, even if that process takes a mere fraction of a second.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Therefore, all the conscious thinking in the world isn&#039;t going to change a damn thing unless we realize our conscious minds aren&#039;t in control (as unsettling as that is) and deal with the underlying reasons for our behaviour. Unfortunately, that ain&#039;t easy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To me, your article reinforced the notion that when we find ourselves &#8220;flowing&#8221; in the wrong direction, it&#39;s vital to attempt to get to the root of the backward/negative thinking. Haidt is exactly right in that we decide our course unconsciously then rationalize afterward, even if that process takes a mere fraction of a second.</p>
<p>Therefore, all the conscious thinking in the world isn&#39;t going to change a damn thing unless we realize our conscious minds aren&#39;t in control (as unsettling as that is) and deal with the underlying reasons for our behaviour. Unfortunately, that ain&#39;t easy.</p>
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